this has been discussed in the district convention thread but i felt like all the "toes" info would be nice to see in one place.
[from the late 1950s through most of the 1970s the toes of the image meant all coexisting powers and governments at the time of the end].
35 but there was a final or completing part of the symbolic image, namely, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
Here's the thing I don't get. What about the 8th King - who they say is the UN? If the statue is supposed to represent all dominate world powers since Babylon and the iron/clay mixture is supposed to represent the democratic/authoritarian nature of the Anglo-American world power, where does the UN fit in.
Wait a second, I'm trying to make sense of something that you simply can't make sense of. Why do I even ask?
this has been discussed in the district convention thread but i felt like all the "toes" info would be nice to see in one place.
[from the late 1950s through most of the 1970s the toes of the image meant all coexisting powers and governments at the time of the end].
35 but there was a final or completing part of the symbolic image, namely, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
I'm bumping this mainly because I'm going to see relatives this weekend who've already been and I'm sure they'll bring up this "wonderful, new insight". I can't wait to burst their bubble with the, "oh, they're going back to the 78-85 understanding"!!!
To summerize -
-59 to 78 - 10 toes were distinct from Anglo-American feet and represented all governments when the rock strikes.
-78-85 - 10 toes NOT important and are part of the feet that represents the Anglo-American world power
-85-2011 - back to the original 10 toes represent all co-existing governments
11 - ??? - back to the 78-85 view that they are part of the Anglo-American world power.
It's not as bad as the stupid generation ping-pong which resulted in one of the craziest prophetic interpretations of a bible verse since the 7 bowls of Revelation=7 district conventions in the 1920s (even when I was all in I couldn't wrap my mind around that one) that being the "over-lapping generation"
Thanks for pulling that together Mad Sweeney. I love knowing more about the changes in views that 99% of JWs!
i resigned as an elder some time ago, have been working on fading, the wife is getting used to the new 'me' (not stressed, better husband and father, etc.
), been missing a lot of meetings... even received a few statements such as: 'hi burnedout, it's good to see you!!!
last sunday, i took my one of my sons to the local dragstrip to show him the races, oops missed the meeting.
Just decline. You know from past experience that many folks turn down those lame interview parts. I handled them on the circuit level before and would call every PO (now COBOE) in the circuit only to have most of them not call me back and the ones that did would tell me that they couldn't find anyone that would fit the experience. Even when the experience was something as generic as what you're saying.
how about that for a discombobulated thread topic?.
i think we are in the midst of a new civil rights revolution - this time the oppressed who are overcoming prejudice are homosexuals.
now new york has legalized gay marriage.
I'm with undercover. I have never been able to understand why the promotion of religious beliefs is given tax exempt status. Freedom to worship/believe as one sees fit has nothing to do with freedom from taxes. If that was the case, then my paying income taxes violates my freedom of speech. It's a nonsensical argument.
Religious organizations are even held to the same standards as other not for profits (in US). Of course, the famous Jimmy Swaggert case which ended up leading to the WTS going to a "contribution" basis on the literature is one example where the government did say that you can't run a commercial business under the guise of religion.
And, didn't that Bob Jones university lose their not for profit status because they discriminated against minorities?
after being here on jwn for a while, one does see a spectrum of sorts.
there are people here in various stages of their exit from their lives as jws.
some are full fledged kh and fs attendees whom we call "the conscious class".
I'll never believe again that the WTS is God's earthly organization. I only attended to make things easier with my wife. She's a social JW so there's not much discussion on doctrine. It's like a Catholic that says " I was born a Catholic and I'll die a Catholic" without any real indepth understanding of the basic premise of the religion. I think that's the way many born-in JWs are like.
Will I DA? No, not unless there has to be a major decision that would be life & death (ie blood). Or if they turned to mandatory tithing. No way in hell I'm giving them a cent.
without specifics being mentioned as to what it is......(to avoid tipping off certain lurkers).. how many people know about the upcoming summer long campaign?
please use this thread to confirm receipt of your campaign invitation.
take care.
IN
elder body removed watchtower letter.
an elder body was removed last year in california.
most folks have never seen a watchtower letter breaking this news.
Cold blooded!! I've heard of whole BOEs being deleted but never actually saw such a letter. Usually when an elder is deleted or resigns they just send a form letter. I'm marking this to read the other documents.
Yeah, why would these guys get disappointed? Seriously, if I were a believer and one of those elders, that letter would just rub salt in my wounds and likely make me an unbeliever pretty quickly.
I'm so glad this is a public document so everyone can see just how vicious the WTS really is. They were deleted because they didn't want to sell the hall, right? Must have missed that part of the Timothy/Titus requirements.
No way any holy spirit is with the WTS. Just another proof.
well here goes... i apologize in advance if this turns into a long and disjointed rant, but i just have to begin typing in order to keep from exploding.
i realize that what im about to say could seriously jeopardize my anonymity, but i think ive reached the point that i just dont care.
i want this to be over.. let me explain what caused me to rip up a letter and get up and walk out in the middle of an elders meeting two weekends ago.. our boe has been embroiled in a nasty fight for the past 2 years over a certain brothers business dealings.
Wow Almightydog! I missed a few of your opening posts so a belated welcome. If it helps, these sorts of things are really not that uncommon. My first elder's meeting (I was about the same age you are now) involved a shouting match and got very personal between 2 elders. I almost quit right then but labored on for several years more. The more interaction a person has with the inner workings even on a local basis, I think the clearer it becomes that there is no Holy Spirit directing the WT.
You know, if you want to fade or at least be a bump on a log (like me, I still attend but rarely go in service, never comment, don't even sing or applaude) you have the perfect excuse now. You can say that the BOE has stumbled you and that you're waiting on Jehovah to fix things. Until that time, don't believe you can effectively serve.
Of course, da'ing is always an option but one with severe consequences if you have a wife and family.
Whatever you choose, at least you have a place here to vent! Look forward to hearing more from you.
Edited to add:
I see that you said others on the BOE believe you're resigning because of the situation only. Use that to your advantage if you want to fade. Let them do the talking to the CO for you. That way, you can avoid revealing your true feelings if that's what you want to do.
Burnedout - Greetings from another burned out ex-elder!! Your story also sound similar to mine. I'm in the same spot as Bluebrother - warming a seat from time to time, but mentally I'm free and what a relief.
Enjoy your family and the reduction of stress in your life. Look foward to hearing more from you.
i finally resigned as an elder.
my conscience wouldn't allow me to continue.
i've battled for years trying to reconcile the fallacies of the wt society with my own personal beliefs.
FM - Congrats on the decision. I can tell you that anyone who has been in your position can totally relate to what you went through. I know it felt like the weight of the world was off my shoulders when I finally resigned. Brace yourself on being treated much differently by members of the local congregation. Your wife may be treated differently as well. I never believed that would be the case until I went through it myself.
